Did our daughter's bus driver cross the line? Or are we too sensitive?

[Rotoli Family]

Our daughter woke up with the Monday morning blues :( She is in the first grade and, after the first few weeks of school, she is getting back into the swing of things. Today, for the first time since school began, she had one of those crying and screaming walks to the bus stop.

My wife did her best to calm her down and reminded her about all the fun she would have at school. Nothing helped much. They arrived at the bus stop and shortly after that the bus arrived. That is when things began to get messy.

As the bus doors opened her bus driver, who has a reputation of being less then friendly, noticed my daughter's sad state. As my wife struggled to get my daughter up the stairs on the bus she continued to cry and was resisting a bit. The bus driver did not appreciate this delicate situation. She began by telling my daughter and wife, "Let's go, we need to get going, get on the bus!" My wife was a bit surprised by the drivers callus attitude. She continued, "We need to go, get on the bus" with a tone that you might expect a city bus driver to use with a drunk at 2 am.

By this time my wife had gotten my daughter a decent way up the bus stairs. At this point the bus driver GRABBED my daughter by her upper arm and moved her toward the bus seats. Without another word bus doors shut and they drove away...

Needless to say, my wife felt that the handling was inappropriate. So, I felt a call to the school might be in order. By about 8:15 am I was on the phone to her school. I was told that I should speak to the Assistant Principal, but that she was momentarily busy and would call me back shortly. I mentioned that I needed to speak with her about an altercation involving my daughter's bus driver. At 5:05 pm she finally returned my call! I can't believe that this woman is allowed to be an Assistant Principal. She came off, flaky, ditsy, and just not what I would expect from a School Administrator.

Regardless, I explained to her what happened. She responded "Well, if something happened I am sure the bus driver would have mentioned it." I was completely confused by this line of reasoning...if the bus driver did something inappropriate, you would simply expect that she would seek you out and let you know of her incompetence? Over all, the Assistant Principal seemed unimpressed by my concerns.


So, here goes: WHAT DO WE DO?

Do we take a chill pill and chalk it up to the fact that some people are not good with kids (but they decide to take jobs in which they will be working directly with kids?).

Or do we take in to the next level...and if so, what might that level be? Principal, higher?

Any of your thoughts and/or experience is greatly appreciated.


As a sub-point, this brings up one of the reasons that private school is appealing: If you are pissed and call the school, they know that they need to keep you happy or they could lose your "business." Public schools have the same attitude towards customer service as the DMV. It makes me feel like an awful parent for not providing private education...So if you really feel like offering all of your advice, do we fail as parents for subjecting our child to the broken system?

[Sally]

I am opting for the chill pill route and taking other viewpoints in mind.

I would appreciate the fact the Vice Principal called you back at all, and after school hours so she can focus on the task at hand which is helping run the school. You may have not liked her demeanor, but I would bet she brought it up with the driver's superior. However you don't know yet. She may have been unimpressed with your concerns depending on what other issues were going on in the broken public school that day.

Also gruff bus drivers are not ideal, but maybe he had been yelled at that morning about getting kids to school in a timely fashion so they could start to learn. Personally I remember a lot of bus drivers who were too permissive and didn't care what was going on in the bus (including lots of bullying, spitwad fights and even slingshots with those pointy curtain hanger things shot on my buses for years) or whether we got to school or back home on time. That seemed to me to be great disservices to me.

You were right to call the Asst. Principal and I think now you have to let things take their course while keeping a close eye on the driver. Also bring it up with other parents to see if they have had similar experiences . Curious about why your wife didn't call since she's the one who witnessed it. Maybe the school administrator didn't appreciate the passing of news from someone who didn't see it happen.

[Rotoli Family]

Thank you for your reply!

I do accept that this bus driver (she) may have had other issues swirling around in her head. I guess I feel, regardless, that when she placed her hands on my child that she crossed a line.

My wife has spoken with other parents at the bus stop. One has expressed similar concerns in the past. She mentioned that, on one occasion her daughter left her book bag on the bus. As she exited the bus the mother realized and mentioned to the driver that her daughters bag was still on the bus. The driver retrieved the bag, tossed it down the bus stairs, slammed the doors and took off.

I guess I also feel like, I don't give a damn if she is having problems and feels on edge. If she doesn't want those problems then she can find a new job. Someone with such a tempter should not be working with children. Working with kids is difficult, not for the faint at heart. I could not do it, my patience with children other then my own (and even my own at times) wears thin easily. That is why I don't work with kids.

With all that said, I do appreciate your advice. I am not ready to dismiss the bus driver's behavior to the fact that she was having a bad day, but will probably just monitor things at this point and hope that another situation does not occur.

Also, I called, as opposed to my wife, because she asked me to. She gets a bit nervous in such situations. I could appreciate that the AP might have doubted the accurate depiction of events from a third party.

Again, thank you for your reply!

[Timothy]

I admit I tend to assume the best motives for people (even if I think the best motives often get screwed up in practice). Not having been there, it sounds to me like the bus driver's behavior was basically appropriate, and the AP's was troubling.

Bus driver: Your daughter was being rude, and holding up the bus driver, the other kids, the school, and you. If the driver left it up entirely to you, that would give your daughter the impression that what she was doing wasn't rude to the others. (Your daughter could be forgiven for being rude if she was having a bad morning, just as the bus driver could be forgiven for being gruff. But that doesn't mean the rudeness should be allowed to continue.) If your daughter was three and being dropped off at daycare but refusing to go, the general daycare person response would be to gently but forcefully take her out of your arms. This sounds to me like the equivalent, but with a bit of chastising appropriate to an older kid.

Assistant Principal: I agree that the "I'm sure the bus driver would have mentioned it..." is a disturbing response. If what you were describing sounded at all serious--and use of physical force and an upset parent (even if I think wrongly upset) does sound serious--she should have taken it seriously. If she didn't think it sounded serious, then she should have acknowledged what you were saying but told you it didn't sound like a problem. It's good that she called back, but I'd like to know that there was someone more responsive to problems available.

Anyway, what next? I advise chill pill but keep an eye on that AP. I'd also try to make peace with the bus driver and let her know there's no hard feelings.

[alice]

So let me get this straight, you will allow a stranger to physically grab yoru child, yell at her and ignore you. That is unacceptable no matter who it is. Talk to the school superintendant now. Go to the School Board now about this. Report the attitude of the assistant principal and the assault by the bus driver. If you allow the bus driver to handle YOUR child like that in your presence how does she act when you are not around? How does your child feel if you let a stranger man-handle and yell at her? You think she feels all safe and secure knowing you handed her over to be roughed up and yelled at by a stranger? This is one of the big reasons I hate the public school system. It no longer belongs to the public. You are allowing the school and the employees to tell you how to raise and discipline YOUR child. Personally that is not okay with me. We had couple of run ins with discipline in our public school ( locking a 5 year old in the copy room for hours unsupervised) so now I homeschool. Be a parent 24/7. Dont allow the school to usurp your authority over your child. You are in charge not them.

[Rotoli Family]

Alice - Thank you!!

For a while there I felt like I was taking crazy pills with some of the other responses.

My daughter is 6. I hardly believe that her behavior can be appropriately perceived as
"rude". Was her behavior inconvenient, yes, but I still feel that one should be equipped with the skills to deal with an unhappy child without resulting to shouting and physical contact.

I must again say, this is part of her freaking job!!!! When she became a elementary school bus driver she signed up to deal with this kind of stuff.

I work in HR and employee relations. When I am inconvenienced on my job does it give me the right to shout at people and push them around?

I don't give a damn if she was having a bad day, being gruff, whatever it should be called, physical contact is where the line is crossed.

I am interested to hear what more people think. Please do chime in. I am leaning toward the chill pill, and closely monitoring things moving forward. I do not plan to let the bus driver know there are no hard feelings...because there are hard feelings. This would be like telling the abusive husband, "Yeah, I understand, you had a rough day at work, this black eye will go away, no hard feelings!!"

[Susanne Conway]

Calling an upset crying 6 year old "rude" is beyond my comprehension.

The Bus driver was out of line. If she acts this way in front of the parents, how does she act when you are not there? I would talk to other parents and keep a written account of all incidences. Also, I would gently probe my child for information about what happens on the bus during the ride to and from school. Could it be that she was crying and afraid to get on the bus because she has had a bad experience on the bus before?

As for the Assistant principal, She certainly should have taken your concerns more seriously. I would write a letter to the principal letting him/her know that you expect concerns regarding your child to be taken seriously and that you did not appreciate being dismissed in such a condescending manner Sure, this situation is somewhat benign, but is the AP's reaction indicative of how she would react to a more serious problem? It takes a lot of faith and trust to put your young child in the care of others. A good administrator should be sensitive to this and make you feel comfortable when your child is in their care.
Just my 2 cents!
Good Luck!

[Rotoli Family]

Thank you Susanne!

I really like to idea of a letter and documenting everything! The more people say it, it makes me wonder how things go on the bus when no adults are around :(

[Courtney Apgar]

I agree that it is unacceptable for the bus driver to grab your child. I would take it up with the principal and, if that doesn't work, the superintindent.

[Anci]

I too think that the bus driver was out of line. No one grabs my child like that without me doing something about it!! This is unacceptable!! If she ( the bus driver) can't handle kids, well, she should get another job. I am sure your daughter isn't the first or the last kid who cries when it's time to go to school. Physical contact should not be allowed and I really think that's where she crossed the line. And I also agree that the AP's response wasn't the appropriate one. You should talk to the principal or someone higher.

[Ms Savvy Mom]

I have to say looks like everyone was having a bad morning. My mother in law is a retired pre school teacher and the absolute most amazing and sweetest person on the planet. She had about 8 -10 kids in her class and a boy was acting up and disrupting the class by taunting other students. She grabbed him by his arm to sit him down and he freaked. He told his parents and of course they had to have a meeting with the prinicple. The problem was my mother in law was more hurt than anyone. To think that they were accusing her of doing something out of line and coined her as a bad person for diciplining a child that lacked it for the sake of maintaining order in her class room. She didn't yank the child. She simply grabbed his arm and led him to sit away from the children he was disrupting. I would trust my child to her any day and not because she's family. I've seen her in the class room with her kids and she loves them all to death. They always come back to visit parents thank her for the extra attention she gives to their kids. I'm telling you the woman is a Saint. I think people get over emotional especially parents when it comes to other people and thier kids. Yes their your kids and its your job to protect them but when are you going to take responsibility for your child's behavior especially in public when they are disrupting other peoples lives. If my kid was acting up in public and the bus driver did that to my kid I think it just gives the impression that hey that behavior is not going to be tolerated around here so cut it out. But that's just my opinion could have been those 8 years I spent in private school.

[Ms Savvy Mom]

The parents made it the bus driver's situation because the parents are handing over their distraught child to a stranger to deal with. The parents should have handled the situation at home or drove the child to school themselves.

[Sharpie]

This is what I think it's the real problem on this situation. If the child is upset then I feel the parents should have handle the situation at home, not at the bus stop. Bus drivers are under a schedule that they must follow it in order to be on time. If you're putting your child on the bus they need to be ready, on time and with no issues. In the middle of the road and making everyone wait it's not the time to resolve an issue. Your child is not the only one getting on the bus and having everyone wait until she's ready is highly unfair for the other children on the bus. I feel sympathy towards your little girl and I understand how that age goes, but next time you need to handle this at home and not at the bus stop.

BTW, the idea that a private school would be better in situations like this is false. Both of my kids were in private schools and when we moved we took them out and put them on public school. In private is even worst because every parent think that the schools needs to adjust to their needs and ideas just because they pay private. Every situation is rather worst than it needs to be. Our last school had a very straight policy on almost everything (because of that) and if you didn't like it, then they would gladly tell you to leave.